CC permit

[Frazz]

 I'm gonna take a concealed carry class first weekend in november.  Any of you guys have one?  I bought a ruger sr22 and really like this little handgun.  What say you guys to this gun, now that I already have it lol.  I have small hands and didnt want a clint eastwood special.

[Onepoint]

Well, no, I was going to get one, but WY went to a permitless concealed carry so that what I do, or just open carry.  I probably should still, but I have am waiting to see if they will pass  a national concealed carry reciprocity law and if it works out as I hope, the only permit I need will be my WY drivers license.   

Everyone I have heard from say the SR22 is awesome.  They say it eats about anything and is pretty accurate.

22s are great training.  However there are few that will advocate a 22 for self defense. 22 magnum is the minimum most carry advocates will recommend and even then many will say its not enough to stop someone, which is the point.  I tend to favor 9mm, its cheap to shoot, will definitely stop someone hitting vitals and is still manageable recoil even on small pistols.

I have bought several pistols over the last few years, lately 3 specifically to carry since full size pistol are bulky and heavy while up and down on machinery etc.

1st carry pistol I tried was a Diamondback DB9, probably the smallest slimmest lightest 9mm available.  I was thinking a pocket pistol at the time. And it was great, except my paws being not so small I could never get a good grip and so could not hit the broad side of a barn,  actually the gun would group shots pretty tight, but no matter what I did, they would be low and left about a foot or more at 10 yards.  Not acceptable error for defense or anything else for that matter.   So its on consignment at the gun store.  It also was not 100% reliable on all ammo I tried, though some of that may be do to me and the grip I had allowing limp wristing which effected the function.


Next one I got this spring was a Taurus 605 revolver.  357mag/38sp,  3" barrel 5 shot in stainless. I have a Ruger Security 6 that I really like, but its a hog to pack around if you're trying to get something done.  The nice part about a 357 revolver is you can have the full power of 357 which will definitely put the hurt on someone or thing, or load up 38 specials which have less recoil than 9mm.  I use extra power 38sp most of the time.  The biggest advantage is for whatever reason, I am far more comfortable and accurate with revolvers than semi autos.  Probably because that's what I grew up with.  I also wanted to be able to load snake loads and have it function, which semi autos usually stumble on. 
It shoots great, even hot 357 is easy to handle with the 3" barrel.  The down side is concealability.  A revolver, eve small frame ones like this are harder to conceal if you wear your shirts tucked and jeans, and I am not buying bigger pants so I stuff the thing farther down them.   I carry this in a pancake type holster and have been carrying it almost daily.  I managed to shoot a fox this summer moving away from me at  and angle at 30 yards or so, so its plenty accurate.


Just a couple weeks ago I won an auction for for a Kahr CW9 with 2 mags.  I had been eying the CM9 the 1st time around, which is almost the size of the Diamondback, but after that fiasco I decided I better stick with slightly larger frame pistols so I can use them as well as carry them.  Most of the Kahr pistols are made to be concealed, so they all share a slim profile, with little or no protrusions, and polymer frames to cut down on weight.  It was used, but claimed to have 200 rounds though it, but looked near new when I got it, I ran 50 through and it looks like its had more use with that.  Its accurate, and I can comfortably tuck this in an inside the waistband holster even with rustler or wrangler jeans and belt.


Nice part, all of them I mentioned are right around the $300 mark. 

There are actually some cheaper carry pistols, like the Kel-tecs, but they are intended to carry a lot and shoot shoot some, like the diamondback I suppose. They are not all that pleasant to shoot, but are manageable enough to put enough rounds through to get competent with bruising or developing a flinch or pull.  TI felt the diamondback recoiled like a .40S&W full size pistol where as the CW9 on the other hand was a breeze to run 50 rounds through, the worst part was loading the mags.   Whatever you carry, you want to shoot enough to have be second nature, a pistol that allows you to dry fire helps that immensely, pulling the trigger repeatedly not only wears a new gun to be smoother, but develops muscle memory so you do not think about puling the trigger, you are concentrating on target.   Some pistols dry firing is fine, some it isn't and some have to have snap caps or the mag in or it will damage it.

[Frazz]

I've got a glock 40 and also another ruger mk1 .22 and wife has a .38 special revolver.  Here in Kansas it appears all we need to qualify with is a .22.  We are going to get fingerprinted as part of the concealed carry stuff, so I figured maybe they would check the guns.  I wanted something that had paperwork done on it as I didnt want to take anything in unregistered.  Might not be a good idea to show up to qualify with an uzi     LOL I have zero desire for something like that.

Had several people tell me to not overlook a .380acp.  What you think of them?  I was not going to buy any holsters or whatever until I pass this class.  I may be hitting up some gun shows this winter.  I know a person cant buy a handgun out of state and take it home, but are you planning on attending any gun shows this winter?  I assume Denver would have some.  And I kind of hate to buy a gun and then pay someone just to hand it to me. 

[Onepoint]

Its a good idea if you have to qualify, which most of the time its not all that hard to do if you have shot much at all anyway, to do it with the easiest thing you have to shoot.
However  KS doesn't have a gun registration, so you could take what ever you have because they are not supposed to be able to use the 4473 form for that kind of thing anyway.  They are checking you more than the gun.  [rant]I was just looking through the KS gun laws, and its not just KS, but if you don't think there are 2 classes of our society anymore, i.e.  those who create and enforce law, and those who have to actually live under it, just cruise through the restrictions on where you can  and can't carry [/rant]

Anyway, gunshows in Denver and up here especially have not been worth going to the last few years, too many people thinking they need to make what they did this time 4 years ago all the time.

I suggest Gunbroker.com and find a dealer  close to you who will transfer the gun.  Yes it may seem like its a waste to pay someone to hand it over, but you may be paying that fee to save a significant amount more.  At the show you can handle them some, but it not like you can really get a feel for it anyway.  Here is a list of dealers near you, it may pay to do some shopping or chat with them local.   http://www.gunbroker.com/FFL/SearchForFFL.aspx?st=Zip%20Code&sv=67879
At the very least look up what you are shopping for to see how much local markup there is. 

As to the 380, I don't care for them myself.   Real life ballistics are not near what a good 38sp exp or+p or 9mm and limited capacity means you might not stop someone who is really intent on harm.  Really good for deep concealment or backup.  That's just my opinion though as a lot of people carry them daily for everything, they are smallest and lightest of the centerfire pistols.  Ammo is as or more expensive than 9mm, but its not like you will likely go shoot hundreds of rounds through it.  There are several pistols out now in 9mm that are nearly the same size, and for me, the mouse guns as they are called, don't work well with my paws anyway.

[Frazz]

Went out and shot a box of 100 rounds through it on my lunch hour, so to speak.  I am not sure how far to try to practice from, but I took 15 normal steps and made a mark, then shot at a target about a foot square.  I hit it most of the time anyway.  Tried to shoot some 5 shot groups just for fun.  I won't be driving any tacks into anything but I only missed the papers a few times out of a hundred. 

Seems my groups tightened up when I gripped the gun harder.  I dunno.. some training sure isnt going to hurt me any.  Somebody who shoots a lot can give me pointers and such instead me me just point and shoot..point and shoot. 

[Onepoint]

Grip is important, hopefully the instructor will show you some basics, which are pretty easy and straight forward and will help be consistent.  Its really not so much how hard you grip, but how you grip that makes it stable. Gripping  too hard can cause a push which will make it shoot low. Basically put the web of  your and as high on the back of the grip as you can, wrap your fingers around the front, take the off hand, wrap it around the front making the knuckles of the trigger hand fit into the pocket created with the back side of the knuckles of the off hand and put you thumbs so both thumbs point down the frame just under the slide toward the muzzle. (10 times easier to show than explain). Align the sights, focus on the front sight and squeeze.

The standard self defense training is at 20' I think I try to be proficient out to 20-25 yards, I know of people who can hit 18" plates to 200 yards with a Glock.

[Frazz]

Well, took the class today, and believe it or not, I passed.  Lots of things to think about after obtaining the actual license.  Part of the class, we had a 3 hour segment with a lawyer.  Extremely interesting and a lot of eye opening things that he explained could happen to a person legally if/when something happens. 

Anyway, the shooting part was fun.  There was some ladies there shooting, dadgum I wouldnt want them shooting at me... they were pretty durn accurate.  So now, I am elgible to apply for a license.  Another 100 bucks for the atty gen office and 32.50 for the sherriffs office, then I gotta pay for passport type photo, whoooooooo  might have enough left to buy a box of ammo maybe     The class itself cost 125 bucks too. 

[Onepoint]

It varies from state to state, but there are places you will be penalized for defending yourself no matter what.

In any event congrats on passing.

[Frazz]

Thanks.  The silhouette we all had to shoot at, a standard police target, I was fairly happy with my groupings.  We had to shoot from the various distances and everyone of my shots were inside of the inside ring, or square.  It gave me a perfect score as far as the silhouette target is concerned. 

It is going to take 60 to 90 days to see if I am a good enough person to be able to get the cc permit.  Our local sherrif gets to put any comments either yay or nay on our applications, and evidently so does the Kansas Atty Gen.  There will be state and federal background checks plus fingerprinting 10 fingers.  Also found out that we will be put through the kansas irs to see if there are any outstanding anything or another.  I just as well hand them a pair of used underwear so they can get a urine, stool, and... well any other dna samples all at once 

I cant tell you how many different forms and such that we had to fill out.  You would think that one or two signatures might suffice.  Every paper and the written test had to be signed and other forms that had to be initialized as each step was written off... lol.  Even just to sign up for the class was a lot of paperwork.  Anyway, here is a little forward that I have kept from email from a guy getting a passport.  Cindy and I have passports to so we can get outta dodge city once in a while.




Subject: Passport requirements

AN ACTUAL LETTER TO THE PASSPORT OFFICE

Dear Sir

I'm in the process of renewing my passport, and still cannot believe
this. How is it that Radio Shack has my address and telephone number and
knows that I bought a t.v. cable from them back in 1997, and yet, the
Federal Government is still asking me where I was born and on what date.
For Christ sakes, do you guys do this by hand? My birth date you have on
my social security card, and it is on all the income tax forms I've
filed for the past 30 years. It is on my health insurance card, my
driver's license, on the last eight goddamn passports I've had, on all
those stupid customs declaration forms I've had to fill out before being
allowed off the planes over the last 30 years, and all those
insufferable census forms that are done at election times. Would
somebody please take note, once and for all, that my mother's name is
Maryanne, my father's name is Robert and I'd be absolutely astounded if
that ever changed between now and when I die!!!!!! I apologize. I'm
really pissed off this morning. Between you an' me, I've had enough of
this BS! You send the application to my house, then you ask me for my
@#$%&@<$' address. What is going on? You have a gang of Neanderthals
workin' there! Look at my damn picture. Do I look like Bin Laden? I
don't want to dig up Yasser Arafat, for shit sakes. I just want to go
and park my butt on a sandy beach. And would someone please tell me, why
would you give a damn whether I plan on visiting a farm in the next 15
days? If I ever got the urge to do something weird to a chicken or a
goat, believe you me, I'd sure as hell not want to tell anyone! Well, I
have to go now, 'cause I have to go to the other end of the city and get
another @#$%&@<$' copy of my birth certificate, to the tune of $60.
Would it be so complicated to have all the services in the same spot to
assist in the issuance of a new passport the same day?? Nooooo, that'd
be too damn easy and maybe makes sense. You'd rather have us running all
over the @#$%&@<$' place like chickens with our heads cut off, then find
some asshole to confirm that it's really me on the picture - you know, t
he one where we're not allowed to smile?! (@#$%&@<$' morons). Hey, you
know why we can't smile? We're totally pissed off!
Signed â€" An Irate @#$% @<$ Citizen.

P.S. Remember what I said above about the picture and getting someone to
confirm that it's me? Well, my family has been in this country since1776
. I have served in the military for something over 30 years and have had
security clearances up the ying yang. Now I have to get someone
'important' to verify who I am - you know, someone like my doctor WHO WAS
BORN AND RAISED IN COMMUNIST @#$%&@<$ CHINA!
 

[Onepoint]

Heheh  ain't it the truth.  I started the process of getting a CW permit after the last election, well I got the forms anyway.  It just irked me to no end that I had to beg permission to do what any criminal does at will.  Then there was a push in WY for constitutional carry, i.e permitless concealed carry.  Should have heard all the nanny statists moan, you would think it would have been the apocalypse or at the very least had us jump back in time to 1880 and have gun fights in the streets.  Now after a year or so it turns out nothing really changed in regard to crimes with firearms. Who would have thunk?

[Frazz]

Another thing that was interesting was that one of the police officers from a larger city and was helping with the shooting portion of the class, said that when he stops people and find out that they have a concealed permit, probably 60-70 percent are not carrying at the time.  Also at the class, the vast majority of people taking the class are in the 45-60 area.  The lawyer who was doing this  part of the class said he thought it was because at that age, most realize that you are getting too old to kick the sheet out of people like you did when you were 20-30 years old, so now they are getting an equalizer.